Men Made for More Podcast

Keto, Biohacking, and Launching a Side Hustle with Thom King

June 03, 2021 Dr. Dave Paczkowski, PT Episode 152
Keto, Biohacking, and Launching a Side Hustle with Thom King
Men Made for More Podcast
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Men Made for More Podcast
Keto, Biohacking, and Launching a Side Hustle with Thom King
Jun 03, 2021 Episode 152
Dr. Dave Paczkowski, PT

Whether you’re looking to start a new health journey, launch a side hustle business that you’re passionate about, or make any meaningful life change - sometimes the pain has to first outweigh the pleasure. Learn how to build your discipline, embrace uncertainty and setbacks, and use pain as a tool to help you transform an area of your life that needs to change on today’s show.

Looking to take that side hustle to the next level? Check out all the details at and apply for a spot in our community of like minded men building their business while following their passions.

Connect with Thom @guygoneketo, check out products at and

Show Notes Transcript

Whether you’re looking to start a new health journey, launch a side hustle business that you’re passionate about, or make any meaningful life change - sometimes the pain has to first outweigh the pleasure. Learn how to build your discipline, embrace uncertainty and setbacks, and use pain as a tool to help you transform an area of your life that needs to change on today’s show.

Looking to take that side hustle to the next level? Check out all the details at and apply for a spot in our community of like minded men building their business while following their passions.

Connect with Thom @guygoneketo, check out products at and

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Whether you’re looking to start a new health journey, launch a side hustle business that you’re passionate about, or make any meaningful life change - sometimes the pain has to first outweigh the pleasure. Learn how to build your discipline, embrace uncertainty and setbacks, and use pain as a tool to help you transform an area of your life that needs to change on today’s show.

Looking to take that side hustle to the next level? Check out all the details at and apply for a spot in our community of like minded men building their business while following their passions.

Connect with Thom @guygoneketo, check out products at and

Men Made For More Podcast Episode 152: Keto, Biohacking, and Launching a Side Hustle - Thom King

[00:00:00] Dave: Hey there mighty man. I'm your host, Dr. Dave Paczkowski founder of Men Made for more coaching, our business helps husbands level up their life. Their leadership and their legacy in marriage and in business. The purpose of this podcast is to bring together like-minded men that feel destined for big things in their life and provide you the resources and community that you need to lead yourself, your family and your business.

[00:00:30] If you've ever felt overwhelmed, frustrated, lost, or alone on your journey to a better and more purposeful life, you're in the right spot. You weren't designed to be average. So it's time to quit living that way today. I'm giving you permission to unlock your true potential and step into all that you were made for.

[00:00:48]All right guys, welcome to stay's guest episode of the men made from our podcast, joined with Tom king here, and I'm excited for this, this interview. Tom has done a lot on, on biohacking. He's big in the health industry. [00:01:00] I'll let you, I'll let him, uh, fill, fill you guys in a little more on what he's been up to, but also a very successful businessman and someone that I'm excited to learn from here today.

[00:01:07] So, Tom, thanks so much for coming on today.

[00:01:10] Thom: [00:01:10] Dave, thank you so much for having me on, um, I'm excited to jump into this and see where it goes.

[00:01:16] Dave: [00:01:16] yeah, let's, uh, let's dive in. So why don't you give a, if you had to give a brief kind of overview of, uh, I know it's brief as brief as we can, and just a overview of how you got into biohacking, how you got into the health side of things, and then maybe what that's led to for, uh, for you as a business now.

[00:01:33] Thom: [00:01:33] um, yeah, the biohacking thing sort of came on later, but you know, when I think back on actually how I got into, you know, how I got into the sweetener business, because that's my main. Uh, my main job is we have an ingredient company that supplies, sweeteners and fibers and you know, and other ingredients to, uh, to food manufacturers in the keto, low carb space.

[00:01:57] So, um, but I would have to [00:02:00] say that it was. I experiment with my body, I guess, you know, and this was back in the early nineties. Um, I ran into a gentleman who came back from, uh, Paraguay and he had all these jars of various leaves and he's like, Hey, you should try this one. It's kind of interesting. And so I tried it, um, It was just this black paste and it was pretty bitter, but it was probably 25 or 30 times sweeter than sugar.

[00:02:29] And at that point I was like, wow, there's a ton of sugar in this. And the guy's like, no, that's not sugar. That's the Stevia leaf. And I'm like, well, how the hell is this sweet? It doesn't have sugar. And that's when I just went down the rabbit hole of like, okay, so how can somebody be something be sweet, have no carbs or calories and exist in nature.

[00:02:47] And that's, that was sort of the Genesis of, um, uh, learning about sweeteners that, you know, that won't bring, uh, an [00:03:00] insulin response and that just mystically exist.

[00:03:04] Dave: [00:03:04] And were you, were you Quito at the time or were you low carb at the time or was that, how did that, how did that journey come about? Was that

[00:03:10] Thom: [00:03:10] Yeah, no. Yeah. I was more of a dumpster fire at that point. Cause I, you know, uh, I would use, so this was back when Atkins was, was popular. So I would use Atkins as a diet. And so I would pretty much eat and drink whatever I wanted. And then once I started feeling like I was getting too fat, I would jump into Atkins and I would lose 10, 15, 20 pounds.

[00:03:37] But what happened is that I'd go off Atkins and then I would gain all that weight back. And then. So it created this sort of vicious cycle. And after, I would say after maybe 15 years of doing that, I'd put on about 35 extra pounds. My health was crappy, um, high blood pressure, heartburn, all of [00:04:00] these other, you know, other things.

[00:04:02] And, you know, that's when that's when I really started taking a deep dive into, uh, into Quito. Um, and I mean, it really happened in Vegas. Like I was in Vegas for trade show and one of our vendors like asked me out to dinner. We went out to dinner and I over did it. I had steak, I potatoes a cake. I was just totally, totally stuffed got back to my room and looked in the mirror.

[00:04:29] And it was just like, yeah, like I would say that that's when sort of the imposter syndrome kicked in and I'm like, what am I doing in this industry? If I'm not following it myself? Um, And I mean, I've always sort of kept myself grounded, I would say by journaling every day. And I started writing that my experiences in the sternal and mostly the experience was the pain of, of like how my life had become, you know, like carrying weight, needing naps in the afternoon, [00:05:00] like the pain of that exceeded and, and, and also the pain of just, you know, being an imposter, you know, in a health industry, that's when the pain exceeded.

[00:05:08] Sort of the pleasure that I was getting. And that's when I was able to really start changing some of the bad habits I had.

[00:05:16] Dave: [00:05:16] Hmm. That's good. Yeah. And it's always that, there's always that point, whether it's starting a business, whether it's, you know, on a health journey, doing those things where that unfortunately we have to get where that pain gets to a point where it, where are ways that, that pleasure, but then it's gotta be, it's gotta be followed up with.

[00:05:30] With action in the, in the right action too. And, and did you bounce around from, from dive to dive at that point? Or did you know that Quito, his approach that you wanted to jump into?

[00:05:38] Thom: [00:05:38] Well, I had had, I gathered them, but enough science and data about keto to know that keto was really what I wanted to do. Like, I mean, I really did a ton of research on it. Um, you know, when I first adopted keto, like I just like anything, you know, you stick your toe in and it's like, how is this? So I sort of practiced five, [00:06:00] five or six days, Akido followed by a day or two of gluttony.

[00:06:04] And just found that all that did was setback all the days that I don't go on keto. So that's when it's like, okay, look, you need to make a lifestyle change and you need to commit to it. That was, that was that.

[00:06:18] Dave: [00:06:18] and, uh, for people that, you know, and I, I assume most people are at least heard of keto to some degree, but can maybe talk difference of, you know, keto versus Atkins, what it, in your words, what it, what it actually is versus what it, it might get portrayed in, uh, in mainstream media.

[00:06:33] Thom: [00:06:33] Sure keto. Yeah. Like he don't Atkins are definitely different. Like you can get into ketosis with Atkins, but it's easier if you follow a ketogenic diet. So the difference is, is Atkins has a lot more protein and the thing that's interesting about. Protein. Like if you eat too much protein, um, it gets converted to glycogens and that's basically sugar that is stored in your muscle tissue.

[00:07:00] [00:07:00] So the, the Quito, the ketogenic diet relies mostly on fat for, for energy. So the, the, the nutritional macros are laid out 70% fat. 20% protein and 10% carbs. And all those carbs come from, like vegetables that grow above the ground. Like you're not going to be eating potatoes and, and things like that. You know, you're going to be eating lettuce, broccoli, cruciferous, vegetables, and that's pretty much it.

[00:07:30] And you know, that sounds like a lot of fat. And if you're smart about it, like I know that there's a lot of people that will eat fatty meats and butter and cream. Um, And I started doing that in the beginning. And what I found is that it, it will get you definitely into keto, but it can also cause some inflammation.

[00:07:51] So people can adjust that keto diet, you know, by me not eating as much [00:08:00] cheese or cream and stuff like, and batting eats, but maybe leaning more into nuts and avocados.

[00:08:07] Dave: [00:08:07] so it sounds like more of a clean keto approach with less, more of a focus on keeping inflammation low and, uh, cause, cause what's the problem with inflammation. If people are like, oh, I could eat all the bacon I want and add butter to everything. What's what's the problem with some of that chronic inflammation for people.

[00:08:22] Thom: [00:08:22] Yeah. Yeah, well like coronary, coronary heart disease. So, you know, it, the people that, that I would say that are hardcore sort of carnivore, um, keto people, I mean, they'll tell you that no eating a bunch of red meat and, you know, fatty, full dairy and stuff like that is good for you. And you know, it, it will definitely put you into keto, but.

[00:08:47] It, it's also, it's a saturated fat, you know, and, and, uh, saturated fat is going to raise your unhealthy cholesterol levels regardless. It just is. But, um, you know, [00:09:00] I, and that's where I leaned into it in the beginning. But I would say that that's part of that biohacking thing. Like I have my blood, uh, do a blood full blood panel every quarter.

[00:09:11] So I can kind of track like where my triglycerides are, you know, where my good cholesterol is bad cholesterol and stuff like that. And you can see a definite difference in, you know, in inflammation, markers. Um, And I mean, most definitely when you start cutting out like full fat dairy, you know, and you're leaning more into, you know, plant-based, um, not to say that that's all I eat, but I mean, I do eat a lot of salmon.

[00:09:40] Um, you know, and I do eat a lot of lean proteins. I just rarely eat red meat.

[00:09:47] Dave: [00:09:47] Yeah, I like that approach too. And I've, I've, I've dabbled in, in and out of it over the course of several years. And, uh, I gravitate towards the lower carb approaches cause how my body feels and some of those unexpected [00:10:00] benefits too, of, uh, No cognitive mental, some of those other things. Can you, can you speak on any of those things that you've seen personally or you see with other people that make the transition Nikita?

[00:10:08] Cause I think a lot of it's out there for it's a, it can be a great way for someone who's, who's overweight to lose, to lose a lot of way to lean up, but that's, that's definitely not the only, uh, benefit. Would you, would you agree with that? Yeah.

[00:10:19] Thom: [00:10:19] I would say that that is sort of the side benefit. I would say the primary benefit to, uh, to practicing a ketogenic lifestyle is sort of the, the neurological effect and clarity that you get from having your brain function on ketones, as opposed to glucose. Um, I mean, your body only needs four tablespoons of glucose to function and that's not very much.

[00:10:44] And so any more than that is just going to go to lipids. And I think. Also another thing that, you know, that I noticed is like, if you eat a lot of sugar, you're going to get a sudden burst of energy, followed by a big time, need for a nap. Um, with [00:11:00] keto, it's like, you're not going to get these huge bursts of energy, but what you're going to get is a steady burn and a long time burn.

[00:11:07] And you're going to get satiated as well. So fat is like, The most satiating thing that you can eat, you know, it's going to make you feel full. You don't need a lot of it to feel full where, you know, if you're eating like high-glycemic carbohydrates or a lot of, you know, a lot of sugar, you know, particularly glucose, um, you know, you're going to get that spike.

[00:11:29] Um, and it's going to burn out quickly and you're not going to have anything left. So it's kind of, that's the difference that you get and. I would say the first, I would say the first week that I really got deep into keto, it was almost like somebody turned the lights on in the room. You know, it was like, whoa, you know, this is the kind of sustained energy that I can get from this.

[00:11:49] And, um, you know, and I, and I stick with it because it's, you know, otherwise I'm going to be taking a nap, but you know, pretty soon.

[00:11:58] Dave: [00:11:58] Hmm. That's so good. Yeah. And [00:12:00] I, I, uh, I love that too, because we talked a lot of our clients in our coaching about managing energy over managing time of so many people it's like carving out while I have they're they're down to the minute of the hours, but it's like, how are you showing up for those hours?

[00:12:11] How are you, uh, when we talked before you got on, of being in that flow state that you just came out of before coming in here, it's, it's like being able to get into that quicker. We can make more out of those hours because at some point it's entrepreneurs, we're going to get. Stretched too thin in terms of the, the, uh, amount of demands out there.

[00:12:26] So managing that energy becomes, uh, becomes super important. It, it sounds like Quito has been a great way for you to do that. And I've, I've seen success with that as well. What other things from a bio-hacking standpoint, especially for entrepreneurs listening, who need just need more productivity or need to find more hours of their day through that productivity, what other biohacking things can help with energy and focus and clarity.

[00:12:47] And some of those things that I know so many guys are struggling to get.

[00:12:52] Thom: [00:12:52] Um, yeah, I mean, as far as. It's like the bio hacking into things. Let's go. I have, I played around with a lot of [00:13:00] different peptides, um, to, you know, to be able to see if I can increase my energy level and, and, you know, in a lot of nootropics and you know, the ones. So most of like the natural nootropics that are out there, I had, I found that they really didn't do a whole lot.

[00:13:17] Um, I found like the pharmaceutical. Um, nootropics that are out there are definitely, you know, like are Moda, AMF, F and L was, was one of them that I experimented with and yeah, you can get some super intense clarity out of it. Problem is, is that, you know, there's, you know, nothing is ever for free. You know, it's like, if you get yourself amped up and deep into a flow state, you know, on the other side of the coin, if you've ever done it, you know, it's going to affect your sleep, you know, and eventually, you know, you're gonna, your adrenals are gonna get affected and you're gonna start suffering from burnout.

[00:13:54] So while I would say that in the past, [00:14:00] I experimented a lot with biohacking. Um, Now I, my biohacking is mostly, you know, like cryo, um, and infrared saunas.

[00:14:12] Dave: [00:14:12] Yeah, more and more natural the way using, using breath using temperature can be good things to do that. I love, I love that point too, because a lot of people think there's you, everyone's looking for that. Of course, that magic hack where they can get better sleep and better energy and do it well sleep.

[00:14:25] Sleep's a good way to start getting better. Energy has as a side note, but, uh, yeah, to, to know that there's two sides of the coin with that of if you, if you push too far on one side and you're not, you're not pulling back, not giving your body time to rest, not debt. You know, properly cycling in and out of, however, that looks, work, life balance, any of those things, then you can set yourself up for crash.

[00:14:45] And you, you may have squeaked an extra day, week or month of productivity at the expense of, at the expense of what though. Have you ran into any of those crashes or are you speaking from, from expenses?

[00:14:55] Thom: [00:14:55] Yeah, I've run into those crashes. I've run into like depleting, [00:15:00] you know, my adrenals almost completely. And, you know, I think that, you know, Quito helped me with that because, you know, I can rely more on, you know, the energy of ketones rather than using, you know, like pharmaceutical nootropics or something like that.

[00:15:17] Or even like stacking, you know, like herbs, um, you know, it or heavy use of caffeine. I mean, that's, you know, generally, um, I think that. People do that with energy drinks. And I used to like, shoot a couple of five-hour energy drinks and stuff like that. I don't do that anymore. Like, I don't touch it because you know, you're right.

[00:15:41] There's, there's such thing as like productive energy and getting yourself into a flow state and then there's chaos. I think, I think a lot of time you can ride that fine line of throwing yourself into, into chaos as opposed to being super productive. And, you know, you brought up [00:16:00] sleep and I think sleep is critical.

[00:16:03] You know, if you're not getting enough sleep, you're not going to be able to, you know, you're not going to be able to leave it out all out on the field. You're going to like, not going to have any reserves at all. And so I think coupling with sleep. Meditation is super important, you know, like, When I get up first thing in the morning, you know, before my workout, I generally, I will always journal.

[00:16:25] Like I journal, I map out the things that I want to get done. I map out the things that I did the day before, what I can do. You know, what I can do to be. To perform better. Um, you know, and then I focus all those energies just into gratitude, um, you know, and letting go of the things that, you know, that I can't really change.

[00:16:45] And then from that point, go for a workout, pretty heavy workout, and then into meditation and the meditation really, I found increases my energy level, but it also keeps me grounded. So, you know, I don't go off [00:17:00] into a tangent.

[00:17:02] Dave: [00:17:02] I love that you bring that up too, because even though on a, on a podcast about a nutrition lifestyle and, uh, you know, biohacking things that you've, you've experimented with, it, it really always comes down to, to some of the basics of, of getting, getting, sleep, eating, you know, eating. In a way that that feels your body reduces inflammation, whole foods, minimal processed stuff, stuff that makes your body feel good and perform good.

[00:17:24] And it's gonna look a lot different person to person, but managing stress, having a meditation, practice, a prayer, practice, something in place, something, work boundaries, doing those things and a move like movement, getting, getting movement throughout the day, whether that's intense workout low and slow, just get out for a walk.

[00:17:38] You're not getting sunshine. Uh, and it, it always comes back to those things too. If you don't have those things first. And you've jumped on this podcast for, you know, biohacking things and those things. You're, you're, you're missing the point of the two. Cause those, those are the essentials that have to be in place.

[00:17:53] And then biohacking is really just fine tuning and making those little tweaks to get that extra bit of energy. Get that a little bit more [00:18:00] focused, but you can't rely fully on biohacking to get you, get you out of the hole. You've dug from sleeping four hours a night and uh, where in your body into the ground.

[00:18:10] Thom: [00:18:10] yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, you can go for a while like that, but it's not sustainable.

[00:18:15] Dave: [00:18:15] and everyone always, yeah, I've rented that crash myself last year during, during the pandemic of get up super early, working out intermittent fasting until lunch, and then, uh, like work in through all the way into the evening and doing it again for days, weeks, months on end. And, uh, that led to. A big, a big crash out.

[00:18:33] So take it from us to, uh, to not do that. But, uh, Tom, I want to hear kind of your, your entrepreneurial journey too, because, uh, it's, it's cool that you've been able to, to blend your background, your experiences with, with something that now you're so passionate about, uh, with, you know, book you've written with your, with your business.

[00:18:48] And can you talk more on, because a lot of, a lot of listeners out there, either entrepreneurs or. Want to be there in a nine to five, or they're looking to do a side hustle, goodness. Something that they're more passionate about. How did, how did that kind of evolve for you? Were [00:19:00] you a, a natural born entrepreneurs selling, uh, some baseball cards in the playground and, uh, that, that sour thing, or is this something that kind of, uh, you know, led from a, from a passion or from something that, uh, that you have been working on?

[00:19:13] Thom: [00:19:13] Yeah, I wouldn't say that I was a naturally natural born entrepreneur, like Gary Vaynerchuk. Um, but I do like I'm a fifth generation entrepreneur. And I would say that being an entrepreneur is something that I discovered. Well, I mean, I had my first business when I was in college and it really supported my way through college, but it was, you know, when you're a solopreneur, you know, when you're just doing it on your own, you always crave that community.

[00:19:42] You always crave that connection. And so eventually I ended up working for a fortune 100 company and that was interesting. Um, but it, it never filled that sort of hole of creativity. You know, because I think that, you know, as an [00:20:00] entrepreneur, creativity is what drives you and like, um, you know, a lot of CEOs don't make very good or, I mean, a lot of entrepreneurs don't make very good CEOs because that's the day in day out that they, it kills your creativity.

[00:20:16] But as far as like picking that step right, and starting your own business, I, I always think of that. If you're going to do it, just do it now. Right. But if you have a job, if you have a job and you can, and you can be conservative in the way that you approach it, side hustles are amazing. Like, I mean, the guy gone key Quito project was completely a side hustle.

[00:20:39] Um, you know, in, and my day job is the CEO and chief food scientist of an ingredient company, but it was my side hustle. It was my passion. And I think that, you know, if you are in a job and you, you know, and being an entrepreneur is, you know, is something that you, you know, that you aspire or [00:21:00] that you desire.

[00:21:01] Um, I would say that the most important. Component in your success is goal setting. Uh, and planning, like jumping into something is fun and exciting. A lot of entrepreneurs do it, but I also think that having a plan and having a desired outcome, and this is where it's like, if you don't have a written down, like, you know, it's said that a goal not written down is nothing but a good intention.

[00:21:28] I mean, that is, there's nothing truer. Um, You know, when it comes to being an entrepreneur. So it's like, write your business plan, write the goal, like write what outcome you want to have happen. And then within that you create like an action plan, like with, with, with quantifiable steps, like by XYZ date, I'll get a done and then a, B to C and so on and so forth. And then I would say that that. One of the things I discovered later [00:22:00] on, uh, that I wished somebody would told, would have told me is that let go of your expectation, right? Let go of your expectation and fall in love with the process. Meaning you've already stated your intention. You've already got your desired outcome.

[00:22:17] And now you've got your, you've got your action plan, fall in love with your action plan. Collect the data. Examine the data and see if what you're doing is getting closer to the outcome. But a lot of people will just build their action plan and all they do is stay focused on the outcome. It's like fall in love with process.

[00:22:36] Dave: [00:22:36] Um, I love so much of that. Yeah. The, you know, the, the do it now is a big thing for people because so many people it's, it's, uh, you know, and I agree with Shane that laying out that, that clear process because, and people seem to fall into a couple of categories of either there's the big dreamers that don't put any process in place and don't take action, or there's the, uh, you know, the ones that get too caught up in, in the weeds and, and, and miss, you know, They, they get so [00:23:00] over-analyzed in it that they don't go and, and take, take action on it.

[00:23:02] But, uh, just doing it now, starting knowing there's not gonna be perfect. Lay out that plan best. You can go take action on it, like reevaluate, but fall in love with the process is such a, such a big thing. And, and we talk about that so much in our, in our coaching because so many people get. Caught on a timeline that they have in their head of like, well, I want this to be at this point by this time.

[00:23:21] And if you're, if you're playing the infinite game, like we should in, in business and, and just looking to, you know, your father on a passion, you're doing something that, uh, you know, you want to be profitable, but also want to make an impact. You gotta throw out some of the, some of the timelines for it.

[00:23:35] You can have those, I think with the process, having those timelines in of you can hold yourself to getting. X done by this date, but you aren't always in control of how much, you know, the results, the outcome, like you're talking about that, that people are going to get. And I, I just, I, I love that you said that.

[00:23:51] Cause I feel like so many people get, get caught in that they get so attached to it that they, uh, they give up too early or they, they get frustrated with it. And, [00:24:00] uh, especially with the, with the side house, I'd love. If you can speak more on, on that, of how, how do you manage it? How do you manage, you know, getting rid of expectations and the outcome with something like a side hustle, because it's not your, not your main thing, but something you're passionate about.

[00:24:12] How, how have you had to navigate through that and adjust that through the process?

[00:24:16] Thom: [00:24:16] um, yeah, that's a good question. I mean, in anything that I do, I always have an action plan set up. Um, so. But then also, I mean, having, just because you have an action plan, doesn't it doesn't mean that you close yourself off to what happens sometimes organically, because things will happen. That will surprise you, particularly if you don't have expectations, like if you have expectations, you're always going to be surprised.

[00:24:43] But not in the way that you think, because it never is going to meet your expectation. Like your imagination can just build things up to a level that exceeds reality. Um, but like if engaging in the, in, in the side hustle, [00:25:00] I mean, there's not a huge difference except you have to set aside time for it. Like, and you can't say, you know what, I'm going to do it next week, or I'm going to do it tomorrow.

[00:25:10] I, we really have to, you know, you have to put yourself in a box and basically say, you know what, when I get home from six to, you know, from six to seven, I'm going to research, you know, my cost of goods sold. I'm going to research customers that I can go after. I'm going to keep, you know, and that's part of.

[00:25:27] That's part of the process that you need to fall in love with. And, you know, one thing that you did bring up is like, Hey, if you don't hit a particular date, you know, or you don't hit a particular goal, those things are okay, because if you let go of the things that, you know, you let go of your expectations, um, and.

[00:25:47] And if you are, and if you have the wisdom to be able to let go of the things that you don't control. Right. And I think that people believe that they control a lot of stuff. Like, Hey, I control people or I control time, but you [00:26:00] don't control any of that stuff. Those things are so far outside of your control.

[00:26:03] The only things that you actually do control is your attitude. You know, your reactions. Uh, you know who you are, how you spend your time and with whom you spend your time with. I mean, those are really the things that are within your control. Um, if you understand that and you can integrate it into your action plan and if your action plan fails.

[00:26:24] You know, you have something that totally goes off the rails and screws up. Good. Good. Do you want that? Because that is where the real lessons come in. It's like when you make mistakes, you learn, you grow from your failures and those are the things that you want. And I know that sounds crappy. But it's like, you know, when you experience things that are always going your way or when people are saying, oh my God, that's a great job.

[00:26:50] Or these things are great. I mean, I, I, I try to stay away from that as much as I can, because I want to know what I did wrong. That's like, tell me what I [00:27:00] did wrong, because that is the path to me. Get actually getting better.

[00:27:05] Dave: [00:27:05] Good. It's such a good lesson for, you know, whatever stage of business or soon to be business people are in is that that failure gives a lot of feedback and we all, we all want successes. We all want to shy away from the failures and the hard lessons, but those are the ones that really, uh, You know, morph and evolve things into the product, the service or whatever that is that we are because we find out okay, that didn't work or that wasn't in line with my skill set, or I need more help there.

[00:27:29] Or I need to, I was, I was going off my own opinions versus what the customers actually want. And there's, there's so much feedback that can come in that in so many forms and not just in business and relationships and your, in your health and some of those other things, there's, you know, the, uh, you wouldn't have, you wouldn't have stumbled upon the lifestyle you have now, if you didn't get to that point of.

[00:27:47] You know, in a way that wasn't working for you in terms of how you were, how you were eating and how you were doing those things. But as you're talking, I love when you talk about, it sounds like you're, you're super disciplined with having the action plan, having, you know, from six to nine, I'm [00:28:00] working on, on this, which is such a, such a good skill to have.

[00:28:03] How do you know what, what stops people from from doing that? Cause I know a lot of people that would love to start a side hustle, but. They keep finding the same and I hate to use the word excuses, but essentially it's it's, uh, th there might not be that, that discipline there it's, it's too much work or it's I get home and I'm tired, or I don't want to get up earlier to do that.

[00:28:21] How have either you had overcome that or any recommendations you have for someone who's like, I just don't feel like I have that. I want to do this, but I just don't feel like I have the time or the resources to, to really give to it.

[00:28:31] Thom: [00:28:31] discipline. It's 100% discipline. And I mean, if you, you know, if any of your people in your audience know who Jocko Willink is, are familiar with him, uh, I would suggest that you get familiar with him because he has a no BS way of telling you, you know, um, discipline equals freedom. And I subscribed to that a hundred percent.

[00:28:54] If you're tired. Good. Get up, get it done. You know, if you, if you don't have a [00:29:00] plan, good, sit down, write your plan and do it now. And that's, I mean, that's just what you have to do and finding your discipline. It takes discipline.

[00:29:11] Dave: [00:29:11] Right. Yeah. It's such a, such a, so a scale, but it is something that's, it's gotta be trained. It's not something that it's not, uh, people can, can hear the way you work or people can reach out to me. And you can ask, like, how, how do you get, or how are you? Have you always been disciplined or that there's things like that?

[00:29:29] Like, it's an innate. Like it's an innate ability. It's like, no, it's something that's got to get. It gets trained with repetition, with action, with ignoring emotion sometimes and saying that, Hey, I, I, I am tired. I am stressed. I would rather just eat dinner and chill out and not do that. But that's, that's going to reinforce those same, those same habits in those same pathways.

[00:29:48] You gotta steer off course a little bit to, to build that.

[00:29:51] Thom: [00:29:51] Yep. I mean, when I was a teenager, I was a laziest laziest person on the face of the planet. Like even having like a job as a [00:30:00] teenager, my jobs had lasted a couple of days and they'd fire me because I'd either fall asleep or just not work. And so I. I don't, I don't believe that all that we're born with any type of discipline.

[00:30:12] You know, we come out of the womb. We're fed, you know, by two, before we're two years old, we haven't even heard the word. No, like nobody's ever said anything said no to us. And so at two that's when you start hearing no. And after that, it's like, You gotta start. You gotta start building it on your own. And, and trust me, if you have listeners, viewers that are like, oh no, I'm just too lazy.

[00:30:37] There's no way that I could ever build discipline. Trust me. There was nobody who was lazier than me and discipline just takes discipline. You just have to commit to, um, You know, to restraining refraining, you know, and putting the things that you want to the side and doing the things that you must do on the forefront.

[00:31:00] [00:31:00] Dave: [00:31:00] I love that. Yeah, it's so true. Can you talk about. Tying tying emotion to that discipline though. Cause like for you discipline with food came to a pain point that said, I feel like an imposter. I'm doing these things. What ways can people get over that? Cause there's definitely a mind piece of it, of like, Hey, I have this time blocked.

[00:31:17] I can't compromise that I have to commit to fall through, but it's also an emotional piece of what there has to be that strong enough dry. You have to know why you're doing it. If it's just like, Hey, I want to make an extra 5,000, 10,000. You know, $50,000 a month, that's not going to be enough drive for someone to, I don't think money on its own is going to do that.

[00:31:33] So can you talk other like emotional things or purpose behind, uh, behind what's worked for you or how you've, how you've had to think about that?

[00:31:40] Thom: [00:31:40] Yeah. It's purely pain. Um, and I mean, I would say that I'm a slow study and that the most effective, uh, way of me learning is 100% pain. So if I, if I have a habit. That I want to break. Um, I just associate so much pain to it that it [00:32:00] exceeds the amount of pleasure that I'm deriving from it. And you can do this easily.

[00:32:03] Like if you have a bad diet, you know, and you eat a lot of sugar every time you. Every time you eat sugar, associate the level of pain, you know, like, what is this gonna do? It's gonna, you know, I'm going to gain weight. I'm going to, you know, potentially if I keep doing this, get diabetes, lose a toe, lose a foot, lose my life cardiac event.

[00:32:24] Like if you can just. Really drilled down into the negative repercussions of, of that habit. Then every time that you try to seek pleasure from it, then you're always going to associate that back to the pain. And, and you could do that in any area of your life, like alcohol or drugs or shopping, or, you know, whatever the case may be.

[00:32:47] You can use that association, that negative association, um, You know, to, to offset, whatever pleasure you get. And I know that there's going to be [00:33:00] psychologists out there and people that disagree with me, like, well, why should we make ourselves suffer? That's like that, all that does is just break us down as human beings.

[00:33:09] I don't really agree with that part either, because I think the only time we really learn is when we experience pain, like if we have pleasure, we're always going to be drawn to it. But the only time that we learned and grow those, those, those episodes are painful. Like sticking your finger in a flame and being like, well, you know, that burns, I'm not going to do it anymore.

[00:33:30] Um, you know, to the degree of pain that you're going to endure is probably equal to the amount of bad habits that you will be able to stick with.

[00:33:39] Dave: [00:33:39] Yeah. That's, that's super interesting. Yeah. I didn't, I hadn't thought of that way. And, and how, how do you either personally, or what would you say like that balance is though, between not being, cause I know there can be negatives and like beating yourself up too much of being like, can, can you separate the associated pain with it from saying like I'm a bad person for eating sugar or [00:34:00] I think that needs some, some clarification

[00:34:02] Thom: [00:34:02] Yeah. Abs absolutely. Like you are not your habits. Okay. That is like, that's. That is a, an absolute fact. You are not your habits. Like if you have a habit of smoking, you know, that you are not the smoker. I mean, that's a habit that you have, you can separate yourself completely from those, from those bad habits or good habits, whatever the case may be, but recognizing yourself as.

[00:34:30] As a good person. I mean, in recognizing the good qualities in yourself is really important. I mean, it's, it's critical. So while I associate, you know, a lot of negativity and a lot of pain to bad habits, you know, that doesn't translate. To, you know, my level of self-acceptance meaning accepting myself as a human beings, accepting myself as flawed, accepting myself as, you know, a person who is on a journey to learn and, you know, and become [00:35:00] better.

[00:35:00] So yeah, definitely, you know, separate yourself from the habit and have the habit become the enemy, not yourself. Okay.

[00:35:09] Dave: [00:35:09] Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. That's that's really well said too, because I could see where people's minds can go that way of, and if you tie yourself to it, that can be, that can be, uh, you know, that's going to even be a bigger roadblock because you're gonna, you're gonna lose confidence in yourself.

[00:35:21] You're gonna, and it's not your, it's not yourself. That's doing it. It's it's Hey, we're trying to change this. This actually this thing, I'm doing this bad habit and, and being able to separate yourself, I love the way you, uh, you summarize that up. And as we, uh, Tom has been so good already. And as we, as we wrap up here, what, uh, you know, and I know you've mentioned a few things already, but for someone who's, who's been listening, they have this idea of a side hustle.

[00:35:44] They have this thing they want to. Get up off the ground or maybe they've already dabbled into it, but they've met some of those frustrations. They've met those failures and they're feeling defeated. What, uh, you know, advice or what encouragement can you give to someone who's, who's kind of in the, in the trenches right now, someone who's, who's a, in a rough patch with, [00:36:00] with business, with some of those things, what would you, what would you say to someone like that?

[00:36:03] Thom: [00:36:03] I would say that everything is temporary. And I would say that, you know, as, as we are emerging, you know, from a pandemic for the past year and a half, that's super clear that everything is temporary. Like if you go back a year ago when we were six months into this, you know, I mean, and the craziness, you know, I mean the world was literally, you know, just.

[00:36:27] Burning down and every way that you could possibly think of. And I think that, you know, that can get inside somebody's head, but just as much as the pandemic was temporary riots were temporary fires were temporary. All of these things, everything is temporary, even you are temporary. So if you are in a situation that you feel where you're at the bottom, I would say good, because everything is just up from there.

[00:36:56] And understand that, you know, everything is temporary. As far as, as [00:37:00] success. Everything is, is temporary as far as failure, you know, and every single day data collect. And if you feel like you're not making any moves, Collect the data. This is what I did today. This is what I did today. And then go back and in a month it may not be moving at your pace, but it is moving and you're going to be able to see, you know, you're going to be able to see that you have at tr trajectory and then understand that the universe is delays are not the universe is the vials.

[00:37:29] Dave: [00:37:29] Hmm. That's good, man. Tom that's. That's awesome. And I think for you, for people listening, it's, it's, it's draining out of those habits, those things, that momentum that has to be taken, it could seem like you've been at it for a while, but so many people stopped just feet short of gold, just short of the end zone.

[00:37:43] It's like that we're often so close to, to see in that breakthrough. And so close time-wise, you know, throw the timetable out with that. Like we talked about earlier, so close might be okay. Tomorrow, it might be a week. It could be another year, but if it's, if your purpose is there, if you, if you know why you're doing it, just keep pushing [00:38:00] forward.

[00:38:00] And I appreciate that encouragement for listeners, Tom. Right? Can, where can people find you? What do you, what are you excited about with, with Geigen Quito? Can you give a quick, a quick little rundown on what you got going on there?

[00:38:09] Thom: [00:38:09] Um, well, I mean, we have the condiments, which is interesting, um, ketchup, barbecue sauce, teriyaki sauce. So if you want something that's, sugar-free that falls into those keto macros, uh, head on over to Geigen Quito. Uh, you can take a look at my book, uh, if that's something that interests you, if you want to see my daytime job, um, what I do for a living and not my side hustle.

[00:38:32] You can go to icon foods, uh, at icon or hit us up on any of the socials. And yeah. And if you've got questions or you feel like, you know, you feel like you're in a dark point, um, direct message me. I always get back to people, but you know, guy gone keto and all the socials.

[00:38:49] Dave: [00:38:49] Yeah, love it. And we'll link all those up. I will say. Uh, did I, I have tried the sauces and the catch-up, the regular and the spicy garlic. Catch-up the barbecue [00:39:00] and the teriyaki are all delicious. So, uh, I highly recommend checking them out, Tom. And, uh, I appreciate you getting out here, uh, really, really great time getting to talk, not just, not just health, which which I get excited about, but also all the business things for those listening.

[00:39:12] So thanks for coming on and thanks for the encouragement and wisdom for our listeners.

[00:39:16] Thom: [00:39:16] Thanks Dave. I appreciate it. And, uh, yeah, I'm super grateful for you to, to host me on your show. 

[00:39:22] Dave: [00:39:22] Yep. Thanks for listening guys. And, uh, go, go reach out, go find, uh, Tom on social, uh, check out his, his stuff and we'll talk to you guys soon

[00:39:31]Thanks for listening today, guys, unbelieving that even if you apply one thing from today's show, you're taking one step closer to living as the man you were made to be meaningful change doesn't happen overnight. So keep showing up and keep consistent every single day until good things start to happen.

[00:39:48] If you haven't already taken 60 seconds to write a review on whatever platform you're listening on, goes a long way in growing this podcast and reaching other men, just like you, that are hungry for more in their life. Do you have any [00:40:00] questions on today's show feedback or content you want to see more of shoot me a text.

[00:40:05] Yeah, text me (760) 477-4361 at (760) 477-4361. Let me know that you're listening to it. And so I can personally thank you for your support of myself and the show. That's it for today, guys, it's time to raise your standard for yourself. Stop settling for just getting by, go all in on your passions in the Lightroom made for a lot of you guys and talk to you soon.

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